The Curators of Horror
The Curators of Horror
The Long Distant Relationship - The Frighteners (1996) vs. The Conjuring (2013)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Hosts: Emrys and Katie
Guest: Neal
In our second episode we meet Neal, who likes to keep Horror movies at a safe distance. Neal is terrified of Horror, and tries his best to avoid it at all costs.
We don’t talk about the WiFi, we curate Marvel, reality tv and bad interview advice, we just want to be the BEST serial killers, our bodies are a road map of pain, we buy 15 computers and make the lord of the rings, we break the rules in the third act and start seeing the past, we have unlimited ammo, we’re stupid and move in to an abandoned property, we know we’re not safe when the dog gets killed, get the most scared we’ll be this year, we have a second child in case one gets haunted, christianity is the answer… apparently, we sing Taylor Swift, and we also discuss the movies The Frighteners and The Conjuring.
Movies
The Frighteners (1996)
Directed by: Peter Jackson
Written by: Fran. Walsh, Peter Jackson
Where to watch:
US: Streaming on HBO, HBO Max, DirectTV
UK & US: Buy & Rent from Amazon, YouTube
The Conjuring (2013)
Directed by: James Wan
Written by: Chad Hayes, Carey W. Hayes
Where to watch:
UK: Streaming on Netflix, Amazon Prime Video
US: Streaming on Sling
US & UK: Buy & Rent from Amazon, YouTube, Apple
SPOILER WARNING: We will discuss the plot of these movies in full, so if you haven’t seen them, pause this podcast, watch them, then come right on back.
We also discuss the following:
Movies
The Marvel Cinematic Universe, Iron Man, Saw, Scary Movie Franchise, The Nun, Cool Runnings, A Nightmare On Elm Street, ReAnimator, Back To The Future, The Lord of The Rings Trilogy, Meet The Feebles, BrainDead, Indiana Jones Franchise, The Conjuring 2, The Conjuring 3, Annabelle Franchise, Poltergeist, Paranormal Activity, Dumbo.
TV
WandaVision, Married At First Sight Australia, Ghost Adventures.
Instagram: @curatorsofhorror
Email: curatorsofhorror@gmail.com
Produced and Edited by: Emrys
Recorded remotely using: SquadCast
Opening Music: Tiffany Hern
Closing Music: Spooky Scherzo by Sam Fonteyn
Check out Neal's new podcast Blind Debate.
Welcome to the Curators of Horror.
SPEAKER_01We're your curators.
SPEAKER_05That's Katie.
SPEAKER_01That's Emris, and here at The Curators of Horror, we believe that there is a perfect horror movie out there for everyone.
SPEAKER_05So whether you're a lover or a hater or somewhere in between, we are on a mission to find you the perfect horror movie.
SPEAKER_01Each episode we convince an unsuspecting victim to join us on the podcast and to learn about their unique relationship with horror.
SPEAKER_05Each of us picks the perfect horror movie for our guest. We then strap them to a sofa, make them watch the movies, and then talk about it afterwards.
SPEAKER_01But who's the best curator? We're in competition, so each episode our guest will pick which film was their favourite and which one scared them the most. We're back again. Yay! There's a song in that. Guess who's back? Back again.
SPEAKER_04Back again.
SPEAKER_01Emris is back and kind of me as well. But we're knackered. Yeah. So enjoy. Mind you, that's no different because pretty much every episode we've ever done, we've been like, oh, I'm so tired.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because we're we have a child and that is what I need to say. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01If only we could just do this podcast as a career, life would be significantly easier than it is.
SPEAKER_05I wouldn't mind that at all.
SPEAKER_01No, that'd be fun.
SPEAKER_05I don't think it's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01Um to be perfectly honest, I'm sick of the sight of you after the last year. So having to work with you as well, I think I would probably be grounds for divorce. Yeah. But um, yeah, so maybe we shouldn't do it full time because otherwise, you know, you wouldn't have this amazing podcast.
SPEAKER_05It's true. So I think it would lose the magic and the ambiance if we were being paid to do it.
SPEAKER_01Ambiance. But yeah, we're back. How exciting.
SPEAKER_05We're sorry that we've been away from you lovely listeners for a little while. We were a little bit under the weather.
SPEAKER_01We had the Lurgy.
SPEAKER_05But we're above the weather again now. No one ever says that.
SPEAKER_01We don't have the Lurgy anymore.
SPEAKER_05No.
SPEAKER_01And um, yeah, feeling much better, much recovered, and ready to talk about some scary films.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um yeah, just welcoming the distraction from the monotony of day-to-day life.
SPEAKER_05The re repetitive nature of the world.
SPEAKER_01Here in the UK where we thought that by this time things might have changed, but they haven't.
SPEAKER_05No, no, so we're still down part three.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um, return of the lockdown.
SPEAKER_01Lockdown Electric Boogaloo.
SPEAKER_05No, that was lockdown too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I just like saying electric boogaloo, it's fun. How are you doing this week? It feels like forever since we've we've done this. So how are you doing?
SPEAKER_05I'm good. I'm I'm happy to be back. Oh, thank you. It feels like we had a bit of a false start because we were like back with our first episode of season two. Yeah. And then we just couldn't carry on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but we we we did go in kind of all guns blazing. We had so you did so much prep. I'm gonna say we did, and I'm like, yeah, I don't do any of I don't do any of the fucking prep. It's all Emirates. Emrest did loads of prep and um and we had all these, you know, all these um recording sessions like mapped out in the calendar, and then it was like, yeah, that's not happening.
SPEAKER_05No. But no, I'm good. Um I as all as ever, uh, suddenly the all of the energy that I thought I didn't have uh has come back to me in this moment, so I feel ready to go.
SPEAKER_01How are you? I'm I'm alright. I'm I'm it feels strange to be doing this, I must admit. It feels like forever.
SPEAKER_05It's only the second time we've done it in this house that we're in now as well, so that still feels weird.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Without Wi-Fi again. But we don't talk about that. It's like we don't mention the war, we don't mention the Wi-Fi.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh it just, yeah, we just don't. But no, I'm feeling good. I'm excited to talk about these films. And um, I feel like I've had a proper like palette cleanse from horror, so I feel ready to talk about it because we've not actually been watching that much horror recently.
SPEAKER_05I feel like we've been living horror. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we took a nice little break.
SPEAKER_05Dipping into it again. Yeah, uh, you know, not too often.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've currently been educating myself in the in the ways of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01Because I haven't actually seen, I'd say, 99% of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
SPEAKER_05And And how are you finding that?
SPEAKER_01Well, I kind of thought I can't keep trash talking all of these films when I haven't seen all of them, because if I'm gonna trash talk, I need to at least be informed as to what I'm trash talking about. And I found it interesting. And I've found it Yeah, I've enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_05It felt like it was really hard for you to say that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed parts of it. I just think it's really interesting looking back at some of the original films that were literally just shall we say, incredibly unwoke. I feel like that's these are people, these are superheroes that people are like, you know, obsessed with, obsessed with them, they're the best thing in the world. And I'm like, they're kind of arseholes, the majority of them. I mean, this is my opinion, ladies and gentlemen. You know, we all have opinions. I'm not saying that I'm right, and anyone who else who loves these things is wrong, but I just, yeah, I'm enjoying it and I'm growing to like some of the characters.
SPEAKER_04Okay, good. This, by the way, listeners, this was spurred on by Wondervision coming out. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Which I really enjoy. I'm better. And and that's the thing, is that I bet, I bet people who are like Marvel purists will be like, oh my god, Wondervision is like the shittest thing in the whatever. I don't know. I don't know if they will be, but I think it's it's definitely been divisive.
SPEAKER_05I've steered clear of the Reddit and all of the places because I don't want to know.
SPEAKER_01I just find it entertaining. It's interesting to watch something that actually really gets you to wait and and it's it's it's hanging on for its like climaxes and things. It's not just like, here's a big adventure with loads of shooting and oh my god, blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_05It's almost as far removed from the like the very first Marvel superhero films that came out when all it really was was hey, we've made a live action film of superheroes, isn't that great? Yeah, yeah. And now it's really evolved. So it's not a little bit more than a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01Or as I like to say, and again, apologies if you love Iron Man, but my god, it's basically every film with him is Iron Man makes problem, Iron Man solves problem, end of film. And I'm like, if seriously, if Iron Man just stayed at home and didn't do the things that he does in his day-to-day life, Tony Stark, then half the at least half of the problems in the Marvel cinematic universe wouldn't actually happen, and there'd be no need for the Avengers at all.
SPEAKER_05It's true, you know?
SPEAKER_01But we're not here to talk about we aren't here to talk about we're not the curators of Marvel. That would be a very short podcast.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, some people have suggested that they'd like to hear that from us, but we're not doing that just yet, at least. But the other thing that's been taking up the majority of our watching.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, are you actually going there?
SPEAKER_05Married at first sight Australia.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. See, I'm I'm completely committed to the fact that I'm ridiculously obsessed with this obscenely stupid reality TV show. Thing that I wasn't fully prepared for is that you were gonna admit that on the podcast that it's not me, ladies and gentlemen, dear listeners of the podcast, that has been insisting that we watch it all the time. It's just as much emerus as it is me. I wouldn't say it's just as much as much emerus as it is me. He's obsessed with it. I was showing him memes, he was laughing, it was a whole thing. You love it. You love getting down and dirty in the reality TV uh ditch with me. You love it. You're all like, oh, I'm so I'm so cultured, and and I choose so much what goes into my brain, and I'm like, I must consume visual shit on a day-to-day basis in order to be a happy human being.
SPEAKER_05I have been enjoying it, but I do feel like there were times where we binge watched so much of it that I felt like I was actually getting stupider.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, that's the point of it because it's to distract you from what's going on. I think if we weren't in the midst of a global pandemic, you wouldn't be so receptive to it, put it that way. I think you would just be like, yeah, it's not for me. Can we just watch something else? But you have you have come to the dark side well and truly, and it is brilliant.
SPEAKER_04We're talking of the dark side.
SPEAKER_01You're like, I can't believe that that person did that to the husband that they just met two days ago. Oh my god. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it has sucked me in some way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you love it. And I love you for the fact that you love it.
SPEAKER_05Unexpected and surprisingly entertaining. Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But um, we're not here to talk about reality TV either, even though I just had to mention that because I feel like it's just been such a big part of our uh lives for the last couple of weeks.
SPEAKER_01Basically, dear listeners, we have no judgment. I feel like we've always made that very clear. Yeah. We don't we don't have this opinion of particularly me, but um now Emirates to to even the same level as me that we don't, we you know, there's no judgment here. We like what we like and we enjoy what we enjoy. And if it makes you happy, then that's great, which is why there is a horror movie out there for everyone. Believe me, there's so many shitty horror films. If you want a bit of shit TV, watch some shitty horror films.
SPEAKER_05There's loads of them in there.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, they're fabulous. I absolutely adore them. You know, come, come, enjoy the crapness of crap stuff with us, but also good things. Because we're not talking about crap this week, are we?
SPEAKER_05No, we've got some good quality.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well, I think it's about time for us to introduce our next victim. So please welcome to the podcast, the lovely Neil. Hello. No, no pressure.
SPEAKER_06I've never been described as lovely immediately. Oh, you are lovely. I'll I'll take that. I'll uh put that on my CV.
SPEAKER_05Someone once said I was lovely. I have it, I have it in recording if you'd like me to play it back to you.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. I will I will bring an audio copy with me everywhere I go.
SPEAKER_01It's a um it's a voice note on my on my phone. Just just uh listen to it. I'm ready to play it. I can play it for you. Oh my god, if you did that in an interview, you would so get the job.
SPEAKER_06Just so the beauty of the world these days, uh, an interview is just over camera, so you can set a background as well. So you can just have someone called me lovely once uh as your background, and you can play the clip.
unknownI love it.
SPEAKER_05That's true. Not just the curators of horror, the curators of really, really bad interview advice. You're welcome, listeners. You get that for free. I mean, you get all of it for free. It's true, that's how it works.
SPEAKER_01We don't we we don't get paid for this.
SPEAKER_05Oh, well, we are so so happy to to have you here with us, and I feel it is only fair that we give over a little bit of time right now for you to shamelessly plug your podcast, which by the time this comes out will already be out in the world. So tell us about that before you get into the episode.
SPEAKER_06It will be out there being shamed for what it is. I I am doing a podcast with Ricardo, who has been a victim of yours uh in the past. The podcast is called the Blind Debate Podcast. Um, essentially, we just argue uh for about half hour, 40 minutes. Uh, we have a guest, uh, we have topics, we debate over those topics, and we basically pick a winner. Well, we don't pick a winner, the person on the podcast picks a winner because it wouldn't be wouldn't be fair if we picked it, because I just picked myself and hopefully Ricardo will pick me at some points. Yeah, so it's basically just ramblings of of crazy, annoyed, angry people uh for half an hour, 40 minutes about certain topics. I'm I'm having fun. It's a good thing to do. Uh, I used to sort of work in radio, I haven't done it for a long time. Uh so it's nice to sort of get back into hearing myself talking and uh using the vanity again.
SPEAKER_05Well, that's great. Well, lovely listeners, if you listen to the rest of our episode and if you didn't hate it, then you can have more of Neil. If, big if. Yeah, cool. Well, let's get right into it. Neil, tell us a little bit about your relationship with horror movies.
SPEAKER_06Um, it's a it's a very uh strange relationship. Uh it's distant. I would say horror lives somewhere somewhere around Russia, maybe Moscow, uh, and I live in London. We we can talk occasionally. Uh I'll I'll dip my toe into its chilly waters uh every so often. And then probably run away and and warm my toe up uh very quickly somewhere else uh hot. My first horror films that I watched in my mind I was like, yeah, I'll be fine with this. I'll just watch it quietly at night. I won't tell anyone that I'm watching it, I'll do it in a dark room because then no one knows that I'm watching a horror film. What what was I thinking? And then uh yeah, just got scared. Uh films like Saw, all of that sort of stuff. Uh would you class the scary movie films as horror?
SPEAKER_01I personally wouldn't because I think that kind of comedy. They're pastige. They're spoof. Spoof. But they are horror spoof. Pastiche is completely the wrong word. No, that's that you can use pastiche. I mean, I don't know. Spoof is what I was going for, and pastiche came out of my mouth.
SPEAKER_05I feel like pastiche is more like it's just making me think of Cornish pastice now.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, I love a pastiche.
SPEAKER_05Anyway, spoof pastiche is more like um like serious, like inspired by something, but serious where a spoof is like we're taking it and we're mocking it.
SPEAKER_01You know, they are they're mocking horror films, which at their essence are supposed to be scary. So I think if you are someone who's not particularly inclined to enjoy horror, that there there are going to be elements of scary movie that are scary. Yeah, I just wouldn't class it as a horror film because I think its intention is to make you laugh, not to scare you.
SPEAKER_06Agreed, agreed. As MDB says it's just a comedy. Yeah, that's fair enough. That's fair enough. A couple of jump scares, and that's about it. The the film that I think really sums it up is The Nun. I think that came out about a year and a half, two years ago. So I watched the trailer with someone at work and we couldn't get through it. We watched, I think, 25 seconds of the trailer, and we were like, yeah, no, that's fine. And then we just that was it. Uh and then it was I I think it when it came out on Sky, I put it on and I was like, it's fine, it's the middle of the day, it's bright, I've got my phone, so I can be distracted so that if something comes up, I can just be like, Well, I'll just have a quick scroll through Instagram, shall I? Uh maybe I'll look at blind debate. Um and you've got to plug it, right? And then about 10-15 minutes in, I was like, Yeah, no, it's just it just isn't happening. I can't even do it. I'm not even looking at it, and I'm still terrified. Uh so yeah, I'm I'm essentially I'm I'm just terrified of horror. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05What is it uh more specifically that really like gets you? Like what what what is it? What what are you sitting there thinking or feeling when you're like, no, no, no, this isn't for me.
SPEAKER_06In real life, I hate surprises. So whether it's for my birthday, I don't like people getting me stuff that I don't know that they're getting me. I don't like people getting a cake that I don't know what the feeling is. Like, if you're gonna get something, like make sure it's something that I I know. I like to be in control. I like to know things that are happening. Watching a horror film, you are not in control. You have no idea what is coming. You don't know if the door is gonna creak, how loud that creak is gonna be, is a floor ward gonna move, is something gonna fly off the shelf? Um, you have no idea what's gonna happen. It's terrifying. And it's also the the thing of it could be real, like something like this could happen. Things like this do happen, noises happen, like things happen. You know, glasses fall off random bars, uh, especially in one of our films. There's a lot of truth to it. So in my head, I was like, just teeth chattering the whole way. But you know, I I survived, I'm still here.
SPEAKER_01So you would you say that you have trouble distinguishing between what is film and what isn't, then when you're watching a horror film? Is that what it becomes? It feels too real and too all-encompassing for you to be able to just detach and enjoy the kind of the because Emiris loves being scared. He's said that so many times that he loves that feeling of when like your stomach goes a bit odd and you're like, oh God, that was really scary. Like he kind of gets off on it. Whilst I think I am much, much more like you that I feel things as if they're like real and happening to actual human beings and things like that, which is when it gets a little bit disturbing.
SPEAKER_06Emris, when you're when you're going over a speed bump at a certain speed or like a small group, you know that feeling in your stomach where you're like, do you like that feeling? No. Okay, that's interesting. Because I was expecting you to be like, yeah, it keeps makes me feel alive.
SPEAKER_05But I love roller coasters. Interesting. I think the reason I don't like that feeling is because it's it's cut totally unexpected. The fact that you're just going along and then suddenly that happens and it's completely out of nowhere. Whereas when you go on a roller coaster, it's like I'm about to do this thing and I know that it's gonna have like ups and downs and make my stomach move. And it's exactly the same thing with watching a horror movie. It it's something where I'm going, I am opting into this, I am expecting this to happen to me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's an intentional choice to be scared.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, even if I opt into watching a horror film or opt into going on a roller coaster, which I hate as well. I just I'm I know it's coming. Like in these films, like especially one of the the first film that I watched, I knew that things were gonna be happening. I knew roughly when the jump scare was gonna come because the music sort of builds up to it, but still I'm sat there just like I cannot do this. Yeah, it's just it's the constant fear, it's just uh yeah, it's like I know what's coming and I don't like it. Yeah, it's it's yeah, I'm still I'm still waiting for a jump scare now out behind me. So for you, uh, what makes a horror movie a horror movie? It's an interesting one because horror for me, historically at least, um, has been it's gotta be something scary. It's gotta be something that sort of uh talks about something from another world, or something very dark that doesn't get spoken about very often, something normally taboo, and a lot of scary uh jumps, loud noises, people with masks on, things out of the norm, uh normally uh countryside, barns, dark areas, abandoned houses that haven't been moved into for a long time, uh, you know, all that sort of stuff. Basically, not something that you can laugh with constantly.
SPEAKER_05And you said Saw, you mentioned Saw. That's one of the first was that the first horror movie that you ever saw? Yeah, Saw, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, still in my head, I'm I'm like, that's that was horrendous. Uh, even though there's not too many jump scares in that, it's more kind of the tension of what's happening, and that could happen. You could wake up and just be stuck in someone's basement one day. Uh yeah, not not not my greatest idea to how to spend an afternoon uh being stuck in a basement, having to sore my arm off. Not not ideal.
SPEAKER_05No, no, I mean I wouldn't enjoy that either in reality.
SPEAKER_01It's it was your foot though. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05That's it. Not your arm.
SPEAKER_01You know, so it's different. You know, foot, arm is a whole it's a whole different thing.
SPEAKER_05It seems like there's a lot of there's a bit of almost a theme of like plausibility seems to to frighten you. You've mentioned quite a few times that it's like it could happen, it's possible. Yeah. And maybe is it is it almost that seeing that do you put yourself there?
SPEAKER_06I think so. In the theatre. So I I went to uh The Woman in Black. In my head, watching that, I'm like, this is horrendously terrifying because you don't know where it's gonna come from, you don't know where she's gonna jump, and the scream is everywhere around you because there are speakers in the theater and it's terrifying. But I couldn't put myself into it because she's on she's over there, and in a way, that was that was better because I can see it happening in front of me. I'm like, I'm not on the stage, I'm fine. But on a TV screen, you're like it's in my house. You you've invited that horror into your home. Yeah, terrifying.
SPEAKER_05We don't usually touch on this, but it I just enjoyed it, and I think Katie's the same so much. We always ask our victims what their favourite film is, and you said Cool Runnings.
SPEAKER_01I did, I did, which is an amazing film that I haven't thought about in about 10 years, and just to see Cool Runnings was your favorite film. I turned to Emirates and I went, What the fuck is Neil doing coming on this podcast when it's your favourite film? It's cool runnings. Like, I was like, what are we? What is he asking us to do to him? Like, it's really just that, yeah, that did tickle me quite a lot.
SPEAKER_06I I thought the same when when I saw that question, I wrote down cool runnings. In my head, I was like, oh god, they're gonna ruin me. The films they're gonna give me are gonna be absolutely horrendous. And I was like, should I even submit this? Should I should I just reply back being like, sorry guys, um, I'm I'm busy for the next four years. Uh I can't do it.
SPEAKER_01You just need to kiss your lucky egg and hope for the best. Exactly.
SPEAKER_06Feel the rhythm and feel the ripe.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_06It's all right, Neil.
SPEAKER_04It's horror time.
SPEAKER_01Oh, God. It's a great book. By the way, dear listener, if you haven't watched Cool Runnings, you have that one for free. Yeah. Believe me. That you use that as a palette cleanser between all the horror you're watching.
SPEAKER_06I did, actually.
SPEAKER_05Okay, well, I think it is about time for us to reveal the movies that we have curated for you, Neil. So let's do that right now. The first film that we have curated for you is The Frighteners.
SPEAKER_02There has been a destructive force unleashed on this town, such as I have never seen.
SPEAKER_09Oh my god, I don't believe this has stopped happening!
SPEAKER_07We have got the Dr. Bike.
SPEAKER_09Okay, well, folks, I can do a clearance, but it's not gonna be cheap. Although I do offer a six-month guarantee.
SPEAKER_11That fellow takes us totally for granted. Hey, Stuart, interact. Wright banister had a remarkable ability. Psychic investigator to communicate with the dead.
SPEAKER_08You can see spirits?
SPEAKER_11Demonations are normally confined in cemeteries.
SPEAKER_08You cannot push spirits around!
SPEAKER_11Although they do escape. And with an uncanny back, we're gonna scare the living daylights out of your parents. We're supposed to be part of it.
SPEAKER_02Everyone says that you're a fraud, but I've seen what you can do.
SPEAKER_11Universal pictures.
SPEAKER_05The Frighteners. And the second film that we have curated for you is The Conjuring.
SPEAKER_08Give us a sign that you want to communicate with us. What are you guys? Well, we've been called ghost hunters, paranormal researchers.
SPEAKER_02But we prefer to be known simply as Ed and Lorraine Warren.
SPEAKER_09James, there's someone here that would like to talk to you.
SPEAKER_04There's something horrible happening in my house.
SPEAKER_07Something awful happened here, Ed.
SPEAKER_09What is it?
SPEAKER_10Whatever Lorraine sees, feels, touches, takes a toll on her. Little piece each time.
SPEAKER_02You have a lot of spirits in here. But there's the one that I'm most worried about because it is so hateful.
SPEAKER_10We have to get out of here. That's not gonna help.
SPEAKER_02This thing has latched itself to your family.
SPEAKER_10Oh, they never seen nothing like this. I'm coming with you. No way, I can't lose you.
SPEAKER_00There's a lady in a dirty nightgown that I see in my dreams. She's standing in front of my mom's bed.
SPEAKER_03Do you want to see them? Yeah. In the music stop, you see them in the mirror standing behind you.
SPEAKER_05So Neil, uh our question for you is which of us do you think chose which of these films for you?
SPEAKER_06So I I was thinking this because I finished, I I watched it in in the order of The Conjuring first, and then I watched The Frighteners. And in my head, I was thinking, oh right. The Frighteners, much more up my street, didn't get scared, didn't sort of close my eyes, didn't look at my phone once. I watched watch the whole film entirely. In my head, I was like, that's Emris. Emriss is gonna be more kind to me. I feel like Katie's gonna be like, you should watch the conjuring, and then you might enjoy horror a little bit more. So yeah, I'm I'm gonna go Emris the Frighteners and Katie the Conjuring.
SPEAKER_05You are incorrect. Sorry, people never get that thought. I did really want to. But I can totally see why you went the way you did.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I I think I was having a bit of an off day when I picked this film because I am usually the one who just says, here, deal with it. You know. Yeah. But this time I didn't. An Emiris did.
SPEAKER_05I did.
SPEAKER_01Bitch.
SPEAKER_05Bitch. I feel like Freddy Krueger's here. Freddie Kruger always says bitch. Bitch. Yeah. Nightmare on Elm Street.
SPEAKER_01Yes, very good. I love how you were like, yeah. And I was like, Neil, you haven't watched Nightmare on Elm Street. You've never watched anything with Freddie Kruger in it.
SPEAKER_05Obviously, no pop culture. Right, well, I think it is time for us to get right into this the discussion around our first movie, which is the movie that Katie chose for you, which is The Frighteners. Katie, tell us about the Frighteners.
SPEAKER_01So The Frighteners came out in 1996. Remember 1996? It was a simpler time. It was directed by the legend that is Peter Jackson, and it was written by Fran Walsh, who is also married to Peter Jackson and co-written by Peter Jackson. So it's one of one of those, one of them.
SPEAKER_05A real family affair.
SPEAKER_01A real family affair. I absolutely love that they write films together. I think it's fabulous. But anyway, that's a whole other, that's a whole other thing. It stars the absolutely epic and wonderful and iconic Michael J. Fox stating our biases up up the front, I was gonna say, up the front, up front. I think he's the shit. Like I, yeah, so that there's that with with a cast full of special characters. In particular, I love that Jeffrey Combs is in this film, which is particularly exciting. And the synopsis of the frighteners is after a tragic accident, Frank Bannister uses his new psychic powers to con people into exorcising their houses. But when an evil spirit appears, Frank may be the only one who can stop this reaper that can kill both the living and the dead. It is um a wonderful, wonderful film, but um but yeah. Tell me, Neil, what did you think of The Frighteners?
SPEAKER_06I I enjoyed it. It was it was a good film. It started off a little bit slow. I was watching it and I was thinking, what kind of film is this gonna be? Is this is this a horror film? Have they sent me the wrong film? And then it started to settle, and I was like, okay, I understand what this is. And immediately as you see Michael J. Fox, you're like, okay, cool. This is this is gonna be a good one. I I really enjoyed it. I like the comedy aspects of it. It sort of thrived on uh lighthearted moments. The character Judge, uh big fan. Um, I liked the uh jawbone falling out and the dog running off with the jawbone, very funny. I like that. I also liked the character developments, they were very good, even with the ghosts and the people who were alive, but then turned into ghosts. There was character development. Uh yeah, really good film. I wasn't sure towards the end how it was sort of gonna wrap up as they got into the old hospital. I was like, oh, that's a nice way to round it off. It was as if they're a good director. Seeing uh Peter Jackson, you're like, no way. And then you're like, oh, I kind of get that now because there are certain sort of mirror sort of ways of how he does things. Um, but yeah, really good film. There were aspects where you're like, oh, what's gonna happen there? Oh, is he gonna is he gonna get there in time? Is he gonna chase death? Like, oh, is death actually death? And then you start thinking, hold on, that's not death, that's gonna be a specific that's gonna be the serial killer because the the thing on the foreheads, the writing. And then it turns into being the serial killer, but there's more to it. It's not just the serial killer, there's more, and it kind of opens it up to a whole new, different element of it. It's no longer the ghost story, it's now there's an actual crazy lady who's out there killing people. So yeah, it was really good. I really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01It's a love story. Yeah. It's a love story between a serial killer who's dead and his girlfriend who's still alive, and they just want to be the best serial killers that people can be and have the best numbers. I do find it really funny when they keep going, I got me a score of this. I got me a score of them, and they keep it's like literally, they're like, Oh, well, you know, the Mansons only did this much, and these people only did this much, and we need to, in order to be level with these people, we have to kill like three more because like that title needs to be held by an American or keeping their little school going. I do agree with you that it's it is quite a long film, and there does feel to be some a little bit of air, a little bit of dead space, particularly towards the beginning when things are being set up. But that is because, in true Peter Jackson fashion, we are watching the director's cut because even back in 1996, Peter Jackson loved himself a director's cut of a film. So if you watch the original, it does have a lot of those bits taken out. But I prefer to watch the director's cut because I like to see the film that the director really wanted to put out there. What you say about the writing, that it is like it's a good film at its core, is because they know how to write a film that keeps you interested. Even if this isn't like his best film, their best film that they've written together, they get how to keep you engaged and keep just kind of ticking you along and going, oh, you you might you don't know what's going on. Here's another little thing, here's another little thing, and that's what keeps it entertaining, I think.
SPEAKER_05It's a real like genre bender. This yeah, I do think that it's it's a bit borderline horror, which is fine. I I'm totally on board for that. But it's like mystery, and then there's this like there's a crime element, yeah. And it's and like and like I said, this romance in there, it's really twists in and out of a lot of different genres.
SPEAKER_01Having different people from different genres who talk in different ways, all interacting in the same place. It's really there's no other film like it, I don't think. And I yeah, it's definitely borderline horror. I think that there's enough horror in it, particularly in the in the director's cut, that's that's not in the original feature. All of the stuff with what's his name? Is it Johnny, the the serial killer? John Johnny Johnny Johnny Bartlett. Johnny Bartlett. He his relationship with Patricia and the kind of more sexual element of it, which is in this film, isn't in the cinematic release. And I think it's because those bits add a really kind of grotesque, nasty feeling in your stomach feeling. But my favorite character in this whole film, who comes out of nowhere and doesn't really belong in any film anywhere, but for some reason in this film is Damas, who is played by Jeffrey Combs. He is the most insane character, but without him, this film wouldn't wouldn't, I don't think, push it wouldn't push itself into horror as much as it does, because his character is utterly terrifying. And and he's the mo one of the most human characters in the film. There's nothing supernatural about him, but he's terrifying.
SPEAKER_05And you wouldn't know Neil, but he's kind of horror royalty because he's in a film called Reanimator, which is a kind of a take on um, I guess kind of like the Frankenstein story in a way, but more of 80s kind of comedic.
SPEAKER_0180s 100% body horror, gore, over-the-top comedy, horror.
SPEAKER_05But in a kind of silly like way rather than like a really trying to scare you way.
SPEAKER_06He yeah, absolutely. He came on screen and immediately reacts to being shouted at by a woman. You're like, Who is this guy? Uh and then his body movements and everything. You're like, This there's something more to him. But it turns out there was. Yeah, he was a great character, really, really good development.
SPEAKER_01There's a moment where he has the leading lady locked in the car, and he stands in front of the car and rips open his shirt and basically says, My body is a map of pain, like a road map of pain. And he's and oh my god. He's the thing I think he is scary because you don't, he's a live wire. You do not know what he's going to do. You genuinely think he could be capable of committing the kind of atrocities that this ghost serial killer does in the name of like, you know, oh, I've look what I've endured for my country. Like at one point he just whips a machine gun out and is like, get on the floor.
SPEAKER_05He's like, I have an oozy.
SPEAKER_01And you're like, why do you have that? Yeah, why?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, how did an oozy fit in your coat?
SPEAKER_05I know. But he's I guess in a way he's a good red herring. Like, yeah. Because you you are, you are trying to, like you said, Neil, you're trying to guess like who is this uh like Grim Reaper style character, or who's controlling this Grim Reaper, like Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So he, yeah, he is very much on the on the right side of things because he's working with the police and they're all like, yeah, you need to help us investigate these murders, but he's so out of left field, he's such a a strange character and such a just he just doesn't really belong in this film at all, but that's why he does, because he makes it better.
SPEAKER_05Neil, what do you think about the effects in this film? Obviously, it's a 90s film, so yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_06But for 1996, amazing. Yeah, the work that they did in night for 1996 to make that into a film, actually quite impressive. The ghosts, even the even something as simple as the smoke in the um cemetery. So when the the sort of army general uh who's guarding the cemetery, every time he's there, suddenly the atmosphere changes slightly, there's a little bit more tension, the ghost's shape changes slightly. So instead of being a little bit more rounded on the edge, it's a little bit more jagged, they're more straight. Even something as small as that, you're like, that's quite impressive for 1996. Like that like even in 2008, you'd be like, that's okay, that's pretty good. So I mean, obviously, quality is different, but effect-wise, it was very impressive.
SPEAKER_05I think for me, the only bit that that really shows its age is is actually it it's not the Reaper, like I think that looks pretty good as well.
SPEAKER_01It's the bits where the Reaper is like interacting with other moving through like the carpet or the wallpaper that it just looks really like CGI Windows 95 kind of it's interesting because I think the other ghost effects, you can tell when they've kind of put a green screen in there, but that's because we're used to looking out for that type of thing now. Um, but the actual ghost effects that they do in order to kind of have them in in the real world but interacting differently and obviously looking very different still work really well. They're just, you know, the kind of the effects on their bodies specifically. But yeah, the stuff with the Reaper, there's a bit that really scared the crap out of me because I watched this film when I was really quite young because my um childhood best friend was completely obsessed with Michael J. Fox, and she introduced me to Back to the Future, and then we did the thing that you do when you're obsessed with someone and you watch every single film that that person has ever done. So I wouldn't have usually watched a film that was called The Frighteners and had this picture of like a ghost face coming out of a wall as the front of the DVD because I was like, that's gonna be too much, I'm gonna hate it. But I just watched it for Michael J. Fox because he was beautiful. There's a moment where she is holding a painting and the ghost comes out of like the face of the painting, and then they like kind of flip it round and it comes out of the back. And I always thought as as someone who who who doesn't see that many horror films, but you expect the ghost to come out of the face and kind of push out that way. But the fact that it then flips on itself and comes out of the back of the painting really like fucked me up because I was like, oh my god, it doesn't matter. Nothing is sacred, you know, like but um but watching it now, those moments do feel a little bit more clunky because of that. But I do I completely agree with you, Neil. I think that that what they were able to do is impressive. And I think it's even more impressive when you know that it's actually Weta workshop that did all of the special effects for the Frighteners. And I was reading something that basically said they went from a setup that had like one digital computer in order to do special effects, and they upgraded their system to something like 15 or 12 or 15 computers, and they set up this like pretty amazing um digital special effects team in New Zealand, which then obviously became the basis of everything that was done for the Lord of the Rings. And if you're a longtime listener, you'll know how obsessed I am with Lord of the Rings films and how I think that they are incredible. But it's just interesting that if this film hadn't happened, potentially Weta wouldn't have been in a position to be able to take on something like the Lord of the Rings trilogy because this was the this was the thing. They went, we need to really step it up in order to make this film happen. So it has a special place in my heart for a lot of reasons.
SPEAKER_06I had no idea about that. That's uh that's a huge claim to fame for them.
SPEAKER_05I know, it really is, isn't it? An amazing little start, yeah. For a film that's so different than Lord of the Rings as well. So I really like this film, but I do have like a little bit of a beef with it, and it's basically like it's kind of like you were saying, Neil, it's like the third act of the film. It's like all of the rules they've established throughout the film, which are great and are really clear, just kind of like they're like, I don't worry about that anymore. It's fine, we're nearly at the end now. So like Johnny is like the the serial killer guy is like jumping from object to object, and then Michael J. Fox like happens to catch him in the urn that actually has his ashes in. And I'm like, alright, kind of make maybe if you're if you go back in the thing that you're actually in, it can contain all right, I'll believe that, I'll believe that. But then, like you said, they're they're like, right, they have to take the ashes to the the to a consecrated ground roll, like a church or whatever. So they go to this chapel in the old hospital, and totally inexplicably, Michael J. Fox's character, Frank, just starts seeing the past, and you're like, What why is this happening now? Because it's cool. I mean, and it's great, like the way it's shot, it's really impressive. But I'm like, just give me a little something to just explain like why that was happening.
SPEAKER_06I mean the reason why is because they bought fancy machines. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01He's just woken up from like a coma where he was basically dead for like half an hour or 45 minutes or whatever. So he's probably like like basically I don't know. I just think if you're gonna start picking apart, like, yeah, but why was he suddenly able to do this in a film that's about a dead serial killer who still can't. Coming out to kill people after he's dead and is still somehow able to, you know, sexually please his girlfriend, even though he is not a solid human being. I'm like, like, you know, it's it's it's it's it's just not something that you it's not a road you really want to go down.
SPEAKER_06One thing that got me about this film, the shotgun. They never reloaded, but it was a double barrel shotgun that really, really irritated me. So it was like poof, boof, boof.
SPEAKER_01They did it out of shot. They did it out of shot, Neil.
SPEAKER_05Except she finally runs out of ammo at the point where she tries to kill him with it.
SPEAKER_06But also, it runs out of ammo and she hadn't fired two shots. Very annoying.
SPEAKER_01Well, it got stuck. I think it got stuck rather than running out of ammo. Because probably because it's got some weird, crazy mechanism that just has unlimited ammo and that got jammed, you know.
SPEAKER_05What I will say is that the actual end is really clever, like the fact that he kind of starts going up the big tunnel thing to heaven or whatever it is afterlife, and he and then sucks them with him, and then you know, like they get taken in that big wormy thing. I was really satisfied with that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that wormy thing that fucked my shit up when I was a kid. Like, it's I I I do think Peter Jackson has a thing about things going in people's eyes and in their mouths. Like, he doesn't care. Because particularly when you look at his back catalogue before he made this film, this was the first like 15-rating film that Peter Jackson ever made because everything that he made before this was like 18 and like unrated because it was so violent and disgusting. Things like Meet the Febles and Brain Dead and uh things like that, like they were just they were really nasty. Like a lot of them were quite funny, but they're gross. And um like this was the first time that he'd kind of toned it down a little bit, and it's not actually that toned down in a lot of bits, it's still really unnerving and and creepy.
SPEAKER_05Right. Well, I think it is about time for us to move on to the movie that I curated for you, Neil. So let's talk a little bit about the conjuring. So the conjuring came out in 2013. It was written by Chad Hayes and uh Carrie Hayes. It is directed by uh James Wan and stars Patrick Wilson, Vera Farmiga, Ron Livingston, Lily Taylor, and a bunch of wonderful actresses that play the daughters. The best of best known one is probably Joey King, who has a bit of a connection in horror generally now. And a little synopsis Paranormal investigators, Ed and Lorraine Warren, work to help a family terrorized by a dark presence in their farmhouse. So, Neil, tell us, what did you think of The Conjuring?
SPEAKER_06The film itself, very good. I uh I enjoyed it. I like the sort of real life side of things, uh, the fact that they use people uh who have lived. Uh the Annabelle uh sort of dull creature thing, demon that uh also is a thing. Uh it's in a museum, I believe, in Las Vegas. Yeah, it's it's it's a really good film. It builds tension very well. The music was a really good storyline, uh scared the bejeebus out of me uh constantly, yeah, through tension mainly and music, uh, but also uh the story itself built very quickly. Stupid people uh for moving into uh an abandoned uh property. You don't do that, it's it's incredibly uh stupid to do. You move into a property that is warm, uh that's been lived in, loved, um, maybe has a couple of faults here and there, maybe a scratch on the wall, maybe you need to do a lick of paint, redo the PVC for the windows, uh perhaps uh a new light bulb or two. Uh you don't move into somewhere that has been abandoned and left, uh, looks like it's about to fall down, has wardrobes that are really creepy, uh, floorboards that don't match, um, all sorts of things that don't look quite right. Um, and creepy trees outside. You don't you don't move somewhere with creepy trees, that's never a good thing. Yeah, so that that started. The dog being killed, sort of set the precedent for me. Yeah, scary. Never a good sign when that happens, because it's sort of hinted to me, here come the demons. Uh, and the demons, they arrived. Yeah, good film though. Really enjoyed it. The ending uh scared me. Uh shitless. Uh the old woman, easily uh the scariest moment of the year for me. Uh her movements voice.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's only we've only just started 2021, so you know.
SPEAKER_06I don't think it's gonna be beaten if I'm honest, Casey. Yeah, Call Runnings doesn't really scare me so much. So uh yeah, I think she's won the title there for this year. Yeah, good film note, really enjoyed it. Uh good characters. Uh yeah, I really like the real life aspect of it being brought into a dramatization. Uh yeah, good. Enjoyed it. Well, good good selection, Emris.
SPEAKER_05Oh, thank you. Yeah, I love the way this film starts talking about Annabelle. It reminds me a lot of the Indiana Jones films, which might seem like a weird comparison, but in every Indiana Jones film, you always start off with Indy is getting this antiquity or this relic or this precious thing from somewhere he probably shouldn't be, before you move into like the main adventure. Uh, and I really, really like that they do that in not just this film because the conjuring is part of a franchise. So you've got the conjuring, you've got the conjuring two, uh, which we've covered on the podcast before. The conjuring three comes out this year, uh, and then you have all these kind of offshoots as well. Um, so you've got all the Annabelle films, and also, Neil, you mentioned it earlier, the nun. Nope. If you fancy a bit more. I'm right, thanks, though. It's kind of you. But each of the films kind of starts with them, you know, investigating something else. Uh, and I really, really like that element of it a lot. So, yeah, this film's directed by uh James Wan, who's also the same person who directed Saw. Right. He did a better job this time, I think.
SPEAKER_06Uh yeah, it was less uh gory.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like although there's not actually that much gore in Saw, it has a reputation for that, and it's certainly more like if you watch the the rest of Yes, because it gets there eventually with the 25 other films that come after the original.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Because the budget is a lot bigger. It's like they couldn't afford to make it too gory because they were like, oh Jesus. Do you know how much fake blood costs? Like, we can't, we just can't. We'll do it all by actors' expressions, having people going, ah, like this, and then and then people will just fill in the rest with their imaginations.
SPEAKER_05But yeah, I feel like in this film and in this franchise generally, I think he's going about it in a lot more of a uh, I don't know, classy way, let's certainly a less gory way, I think is the best way to put it.
SPEAKER_01It's a lot more classic ghost story with a modern perspective in terms of the ability to do effects and things like that. But there's a lot of shots that I think are very like old school haunted house. Like when the shit starts to hit the fan towards the end of the film, there's an amazing shot of the camera panning out and it flips upside down. So the characters are all basically walking on the ceiling, and then it zooms back in with everything completely off kilter in that traditional way of going, look, the whole world's been turned upside down by these events and things like that. I think it it has a lot of nice nods towards kind of very old school ghost stories, but in a really refreshing, modern way at the same time.
SPEAKER_05It's so beautifully shot, this film, as well. Like it really is very classy in the way that it's put together and it's really affecting, I think. Like it the way that it is shot often is the thing that it kind of isn't letting you see everything, or you're at a certain angle, or you're shooting in a particular way, makes it scarier.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It really makes me think of poltergeist, which is one of Emiris' favourite films. It's the same kind of premise, you know, stuff's going on in our house and it's not good, and it's affecting like the children and stuff, and we have to call the experts in and get them to set their equipment up and do all of their um you know, jiggery pokery and whatever, in order to get some help. But it's it's it's like that, but with with all of the 1980s camp and kit completely stripped away, and you're just left with the the very bare bones, which is what makes it feel real, I think. It's obviously, you know, it says all it's based on true events and these were real people, and this is it, but it's it's a lot of it is dramatized because otherwise it wouldn't, it wouldn't make, it wouldn't make for a good film unless they did that. But it makes it feel more honest and more real because of how they've done that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, especially with the the mum getting her in that relationship with her children and sort of losing track of that they're her children. That was a that was a very uh sort of important part of the film. I think it gets you emotionally, it gets you more involved with the children, thinking they're not safe, because if of all people their mother's not looking after them, they're screwed.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, she does have a lot of them, so maybe it's just that when you have that many, you just kind of can't keep track of them because that's you know, just like oh I mean, I did say to Emris, I was like, well, you know, maybe we should think about having a second one in case one of them gets haunted. Because you know, you need to have you need to have a backup baby in case one of them dis you know gets possessed or something. By a music box. By a music box, yeah. You you don't know. So, you know, it's it's things like this that you really need to make plans for the for the future.
SPEAKER_06I love that as well, the end at the end of the film with the music box when they when they get back to their home, Ed and Lorraine, and they're like, well, we'll just put this right here next to our 5,000 other haunted artifacts. Can you imagine how horrendous that house is?
SPEAKER_01It's like it is like Indiana Jones. I love it. Yeah. Instead of like, you know, like the Holy Grail or the Ark of the Covenant or just going into like a storage thing at the end of the film, it's it's the creepy, creepy um uh musical box or Annabelle in the glass case. I love that they've got all of that creepy shit in their house because it is, I I think one of the things that makes this whole franchise, the whole of the conjuring really, really work is how they have portrayed Ed and Lorraine. And I know from reading about them because I'm one of the the type of people who, when I found found out that they're real, and I'm like, I must learn everything about these people and what they do and everything. So I so I did I have read quite a lot of different articles and things about them, and they I I don't know if the real life versions of them were um as kind of legit as they might have appeared, and I definitely think that they were not as kind of kind and giving as the characters in this. I think that that that is worth saying, but the the characters in this film, how they have been written and how they are portrayed, they are just exactly the people that you would want to come round to your house if like there was like a demon possessing like it like your house and affecting your children and stuff, like particularly Lorraine. She's just I just love her. I think she's wonderful. She's just so empathetic. And as a couple, I love that they are like really romantic. It's it is like, you know, I was joking about love stories in The Frighteners, but basically every aspect of the conjuring that I've ever seen is like a love story between Ed and Lorraine. And I really, I really enjoy that because it gives it balance because it's not all just doom and gloom, and we're all gonna die because of the ghosts and the evil stuff. It's these people are like good people and they're trying to help, you know. I like it.
SPEAKER_06That reminds me of one part of the film when they uh the whole floorboard thing breaking through and the hanging, but oh that terrified me. Um, but yeah, Ed and Lorraine uh going through that. It was very nice to see them um sort of stay together throughout and that they still love each other after all of this crazy shit happens. So it's yeah, in a way, yes, it's terrifying, but you end it and you're like, okay, they're okay at the end, they're still happy and they're still in love. So must be alright.
SPEAKER_01In their creepy house full of all of that random shit.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I wouldn't live with that stuff in my house.
SPEAKER_05One of the things that I find really interesting, not just about this film, but about lots of films that cover this kind of thing with the where it's kind of films that cover possession is what I'm getting at. Uh, I find it really interesting that the answer to this is always uh Christianity.
SPEAKER_01An exorcism.
SPEAKER_05An exorcism. Like, like it doesn't like they they say like we're not really religious, like like our we haven't baptized our children or christened our children or anything like that. But not just in this film, but in lots of films, that is the answer. And I think in this film, to be honest, it's done in a really kind of like it's not like hitting you over the head with it. It's quite like there's priests mentioned and there's crosses and stuff, but it's pretty like it's almost like this is just like a means to an end. Like, I don't really want you to spend loads of time focusing on this. But what do you guys think about that in this film and in other films just generally?
SPEAKER_06For me, I think the like first film that comes to my mind would be Paranormal Activity. For some reason, I don't I have no idea, but I watched them. I went to the cinema for the first one with a few friends, and we were all absolutely terrified at the end of it. And I in my head I was like, why did I just go to a horror film? I hate horror. Um, and here I am on a horror podcast. Um but it in even in that film, it's still not overtly Christian, but there's a lot of sort of religious sort of mentions and sort of hints throughout the the film. Um, and it's the same in the conjuring. I do find it very interesting in films because it Christianity, through what I've sort of seen, does talk about sort of hell a lot more. It talks about the sort of other world, the sort of the demons and that sort of thing a lot more. Other religions don't really mention it as much. There's sort of references to it, but they're sort of not like I'm I'm Jewish, and in our our religion, we're told basically don't talk about it, don't think about it. It's there, but you you don't need to worry about it, like just carry on.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I think that the reason that it comes with that feeling of Christianity is that because these are the demons and the ghosts and the devils of Christianity. Like it's very much like you know, the reason that you go to a priest is because the priest knows about these things, because it's the whole heaven and hell thing. Like you can only really have heaven if you have hell, and you can only really have God if you have Satan, or at least within my understanding of the Christian faith, that's kind of the two things go hand in hand. So these particular kinds of ghosties and ghoulies are things that have come from the history of Christianity, I think. I think that you do get those type of things, like you say, Neil, in other religions, you know, different kinds of, you know, shadows and things that go bump in the night, you know, all across the world from people with different backgrounds have different, you know, different names for you know, the monster that's gonna come and eat you and stuff like that, in you know, things that you you tell children. But I think when it comes to the very classic witches in particular, the reason that witches would be with Christianity is because the Christians were the people that went after women because they thought that they were witches, you know. So I think that it's just been that those demons come from that place is where they're kind of born out of. But it is really weird. Yeah, I've never actually thought about that because every film that I've ever seen that has someone possessed, it doesn't matter where in the world they are or what background they are or the person they are, it's always like, you know, Christianity, father, Catholics in particular, I think, as opposed to just Christians in general, that come and then they're like, no, you need to have your rosary and I'll, you know, throw holy water on you and do all of that kind of stuff. It's yeah, I've never thought about that. It's really interesting.
SPEAKER_05I guess the thing we can take from the conjuring is that it's it's almost like it doesn't the big bad in this, wherever it originates from, doesn't care what you believe it's just there and it's bad, and and you know, for whatever reason, this is the answer to getting rid of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't think I can be the only person who in this world now in in 2021, watching this film, where several dead characters come onto the scene saying, Look what she made me do. Look what she made me do about you know the fact that I've you know they've drowned their children or whatever has happened, who doesn't sit there and start singing, you know, Taylor Swift. Oh, look what you made me do, look what you made me do, look what you made me do, look what you just made me do like this. I literally was sitting there while we were watching this film, just going, look what you made me do.
SPEAKER_05Like And listeners, if that meme doesn't already exist, please create it for us.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I did, I did that, that brought me out of it a little bit, but I it just it made me laugh.
SPEAKER_05For me, there's there's there's three real big scares in this kind of in a set piece kind of way. So can I guess can I guess what one what I want to do is I want to see on a scale of like one to five, one being like not very scary at all, and five being the scariest thing possible. I want to see how much each of these things um freaked out Neil. On a scale from cool runnings to the nun trailer, yeah. Exactly, yes, exactly. So uh the first one is the music box, which appears about three times in it. We've already talked about it's a little spinning music box, and when it stops, if you look behind you, you can see the reflection of uh Rory.
SPEAKER_01Rory. Oh bless little Rory.
SPEAKER_05So, Neil, what what would you give that one out of five?
SPEAKER_06The music box, because of its real sort of connotations and and the chance that there could be a box out there that does have something like that, because uh you know, things do attach to things. Yeah, probably about three and a half, three point eight, I would say.
SPEAKER_05Oh, very, very specific. I like that. Nice. Uh the next bit for me is when the mother and just the single child are playing hide and clap, um, and the mother gets pulled down into the basement and all the lights are out, and there's like a creepy ball bouncing, and then she's just there with her matches, and then you just hear and you a pair of pants appear and just go.
SPEAKER_01But do you not do you not think that it is the thing that is clever about the hide and clap is that when the kids were playing it before, you see out of focus in the background a pair of hands come out of the wardrobe and clap as well, and you think, I hope that there's not something wrong with that. Hope surely that's got to be one of the kids doing that, but that is a weird thing to do to just be like sticking my creepy hands out and clapping. But I don't think you ever expect to see those hands in full focus, central in a shot. And it is that is one of the most shocking things that I've ever seen in a film. And I think there's a moment in the conjuring too that is very similar that's completely nothing really to do with anything, but it's it's it's like at its core, one of the creepiest things ever. But yeah, those hands are something else.
SPEAKER_05So, what's that one out of five, Neil?
SPEAKER_06Straight five. Um yeah, the whole clap game. As soon as it starts happening, you're like, oh no, like this is gonna not end well. Yeah, do this sort of thing in this kind of house. Like, what are you doing? Yes, straight five, hundred percent. As soon as the basement happened as well, basements and attics are never good things, like ground floor, first floor, you're sweet.
SPEAKER_05Attic and basement, and then the third one for me is the exorcism at the end. Uh, specifically the bit where the mother has been like pulled down into the floor, and that and like Ed is like in one place trying to speak to her, and like Lorraine is like looking through a little hole, and you're like through walls and everything, and it's quite claustrophobic.
SPEAKER_01And you can see all the veins and all of that, and her eyes are just it's she's not she's not human at this point, and it's it's deeply upsetting to see someone who is the mother figure, which is like you know, traditionally Yeah, you think it's gonna be one of the little kids, and yeah, it's it's this idea of of care and love and like nurturing the and she's such a loving parent to her children to have that then completely turned is really obscene, you know? It is like the the devil's coming to completely disrespect everything that you think is true, you know.
SPEAKER_05So, what you're giving that one, Neil? I mean, five.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that that whole theme for quite a long period during watching this film.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, just three periods. I was at a five. Um it's you mentioned the the fact that it's the mother, that is a huge part of it because the kid is the one who sees so-called Rory first. And in that whole sort of world, if a child latches onto something, normally that's not a great sign. That's probably gonna be a demon. Um, and if that child thinks that they're playing with another child, the child voice is probably a demon, mocking a child, because they think, you know, YOLO, let's let's have fun here. Um and then so immediately you're like, oh no, the kid's gonna be horrendous. But then it's not the kid, it's the mum, and it completely turns everything. You're like, how did that change?
SPEAKER_01The mother to kill the child. That is that is horrible. And the fact that she says that, Lorraine says that, and then they just leave the mum alone with the kids. They're just like, Yeah, that's that's fine, that'll be fine. No, it won't. For God's sake, like, why would you do that?
SPEAKER_05One of my favorite parts of this film, and actually all of this franchise of films, uh, is actually the end credits where they just show you photographs of the real people that you've just seen a film about. How did you find that part for me?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, like as as not a fan of horror, but someone who likes to watch the shows like Ghost Adventures and stuff like that. That was the most interesting part of it all, because it all kind of tied it back. And yeah, at the end of the film, you're like, okay, cool, it's all over. And then you're like, is it over? Is it? Is it? But yeah, that that sort of ties it all together, makes it all a little bit more uh real, rams it home, and then prepares you for the next film, which I've not watched, shockingly. Will I watch it? Who knows? Maybe sometime, but yeah, it was it, it was good. It was hard ending for it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, and uh the second one is definitely scarier than the first one, I would say.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, you're good then, you're fine. Yeah, that that film can be watched by other people as well. It's made its box with office money already. It doesn't need me.
SPEAKER_05All right, well, I think it's about time for us to reveal to you why we chose these films for you. And Katie is going to go first.
SPEAKER_01Hi, Neil. I'm gonna tell you why I picked this film for you. Um, it's do you know what? It's it's relatively simple as to why I picked this film for you. When I was reading through your lovely questionnaire, where you mentioned the fact that Cool Runnings was your favourite film, and you mentioned the fact that you absolutely detest horror and that being scared is deeply unsettling for you. And it's just it's been it felt like I was living through some trauma that you've experienced in your life from reading through your answers to the questions, and obviously I felt for you, and it was really weird, it was very strange because usually when I hear that people are scared, I'm like, ah, it doesn't matter. Here's a film, I'm gonna, you know, fuck with you a little bit, that type of thing is usually my attitude. But for some reason, I just didn't feel that when I was reading your questionnaire, and I think it's because I really, really think that we are very similar in terms of the things that scare us. And from that perspective, I thought back to little baby Katie when baby Katie hadn't watched many horror films and was scared of pretty much her own shadow. And one of the films that did scare me, but that still was incredibly entertaining and I enjoyed and was probably one of the reasons that I went on to watch more films was The Frighteners. It's very well written. I think it's it's really entertaining in terms of the characters. Like you said, the character development's great. It's got an incredible cast of people that keep you engaged, and it has just enough horror in it to kind of make you realize that you know, just because something's got scary bits in it doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna scar you completely for life. So what I was hoping that this film maybe act as some kind of gateway drug for you into perhaps exploring other avenues of other horror films. I was thinking maybe we should break you in a little bit gently. Obviously, some other people may have had um other opinions on whether or not that was the right thing to do. But my goal was to keep you entertained and comfortable enough that you would consider indulging in more horror films in the future and hopefully not just scare you off at the first hurdle. And that is why I picked the Frighteners for you. It makes sense.
SPEAKER_06Um now I'm listening to it. I'm like, yeah, that of course Katie picked it. Why didn't I uh but yeah, it it made complete sense. Um, I think I think it is uh we are at probably a very similar point, myself and baby Katie, um, in terms of our horror sort of world and appreciation. Will it make me watch more horror? Potentially, definitely more than before. Before I would have had zero interest, but it's definitely piqued my interest because if there are films like that out there, probably more willing to watch them. Yeah, it was a yeah, good pick.
SPEAKER_05Well, Neil, I picked the conjuring for you. And like we've already said, I went a little bit kind of off what I usually do. I usually like to go quite easy on people, but I just thought based on your survey, you you know, you haven't seen that many horror films. So I actually was like, I think this is one of those rare occasions where I actually do want to scare you, even though I know you're not wild about that, because I I have I have some different reasons why and how I want to do that. Also, you know, you said that you had seen Saw and it had scared you and that had put you off. So I was like, I'm actually gonna give you a film that's directed by the same person, but just to show you, like, how like horror films can be very, very different than that. They don't have to be like that if that's not your cup of tea. I hadn't I didn't even know that you'd watched the trailer for the nun and have been terrified by that. That was just a happy accident. So I was quite happy when you said that. You you talked about horror being jump scares, and this film has a lot of jump scares in it. So I kind of wanted to give you what you were expecting in that way and not really surprise you, but just to be like, yeah, that's kind of what horror can be. I definitely was inspired by the fact that you said Cool Runnings was your favourite film. I do think that was part of the fact that I was like, I do want to scare you. I'm not gonna lie. I really love franchise horror films, so I thought maybe if you do like this, there's a whole bunch of other ones for you to check out if if we have kind of piqued your interest. And uh one of the things you spoke about was that was actually your fear is um claustrophobia, and I think that like I mentioned earlier, the exorcism scene in the conjuring is so claustrophobic. Like you literally, like the cameras are like stuck in the walls and they're in the floors and stuff like that. And I just thought that's actually just going to scare you, so that that'll be good. But the main thing, the main reason, the the thing that hooked me into this film was a really innocuous thing that I think I've actually picked up on quite well. Uh, and it was that we ask all of our victims what genres of film they enjoy, and one of the ones that you said you love is documentaries. And I know that this is not a documentary film, but it is in some ways presented kind of like, hey, we're good, we this is a film, but it's a real thing that happened. And I actually thought if there's a way to get Neil to buy into this and to enjoy it, it's actually the fact that this is a real thing that happened, or you know, allegedly happened, and there's there's some history and there's some truth and there's some reality that connects this. Uh, so for all of those reasons, but primarily to just try a different angle into horror to be like this is a thing that really happened. That is why I chose for you the conjuring, and because I wanted to scare the pants off.
SPEAKER_06It worked. Um, thanks for picking it to scare me. Uh yeah, really, really appreciate the uh the real depth into your thought there. Yeah, solid film. Good, good, good thinking about the documentary. Uh did well there. Because uh that yeah, that piqued my interest uh a little bit more into horror. Together, they were a very good pairing. Um, they worked very well together as a sort of film to watch to sort of get into a genre that I I am terrified of. Good selections, well done, well done. It's as if you guys run a podcast.
SPEAKER_05How did you find the experience of having films uh for you to watch chosen for you, specifically horror films in this case? Um quite good, actually.
SPEAKER_06Filling out the little survey, I'm just doing it thinking, I'm not sure why I'm doing this. I wonder, I wonder why why we do this. But then when you get a film given to you, you're like, right, you actually read that stuff. Um yeah, so so it's just yeah, it was really nice being being able to sort of sit down and and think this isn't something that I've got to scroll through and have a look. This is something that's actually been curated for me. So yeah, it was it was a pleasure to sort of sit down and not have to sort of think about what I'm watching and just watch something that's presented to me. That's great.
SPEAKER_05Well, we are now at the point in the podcast where we've got two important questions to ask you. Uh, and the first one is this Neil, which of these two films scared you the most?
SPEAKER_06So I think I d I'm I mean uh I 100%. There's no there's no question, there's no doubt.
SPEAKER_01It's the conjuring I was gonna say, is it cool running? Was it cool running?
SPEAKER_06It was Dumbo, yeah. The conjuring a hundred percent, yeah, scared the shit out of me.
SPEAKER_01Oh, bless you.
SPEAKER_05And the second question we have for you is which of these two films was the best curated horror pick for you?
SPEAKER_06So this one was a really tough one. I I watched both and then I kind of sat and I was like, well, which one which one is the best film for me? Which one did I enjoy the most? Which one is the horror film for me? So I did a sort of scoring thing in my head of like, is it a horror film in my mind? How scary was it? Did I enjoy it? What parts did I enjoy? And sort of worked it out between the two of them. And the frighteners came in on my scale at approximately 7.5 scares. Scares not only just being scaring and being scared, but also how much of enjoyment did I have on the film. I enjoy the frighteners, it was a good film, very funny, good parts, great acting, sort of you know, creative and fun. The Conjuring was an 8.2 on my scale. Very, very uh, you know, uh efficient uh scale, this one, because of the documentary thing. So it's it was interesting that you picked up on that because the sort of real life people and the things that I've watched previously in documentaries, I was like, oh, I know those two, or oh no, I know the Annabelle doll, oh no, or oh music box, oh I wonder what's attached to that, and thinking like, oh, this is real, this stuff could work with this, and we're in this, and whereas from the frighteners, the judge, although being a good character, not real. Haven't seen him in a documentary, so I I I would vote the conjuring, even though it scared me more, and I was sat there sort of gripping my hands as tight as possible throughout, I would say the conjuring won.
SPEAKER_07Yay.
SPEAKER_05Uh is that another double win for me?
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, considering you lost so badly in the first season, you need it, to be fair. I mean, it just goes to you know, shoot myself in the foot when I try and be nice to people. It shows that my usual cold, collected, give no fucks about anybody dead inside attitude is actually more beneficial. So I'm gonna stop trying to be kind and just be a Stone Cold bitch.
SPEAKER_05The one thing I will say is so far, my approach to the two uh victims that we've had on the podcast so far is be more like Katie when you're picking these. Just pick one thing that you really, really want to go for and uh and don't worry about scaring people because hey, it's a horror podcast.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well done. I I I can't I can't even fault you because it's it's true. Sometimes what you need from a horror film is just to have the pants scared off you. So yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well, we've come to the end. So all we have left to do now is just say a massive thank you to Neil. Thank you, Neil!
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Neil.
SPEAKER_06Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for uh scaring the crap out of me, uh selecting things that I don't like and that you knew I wouldn't like. Uh yeah, really kind of you. Uh, but hey, you won. So it worked out well for you. Woo! Yeah, thank you for having me on. Really appreciate it, guys.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for joining us on the Curators of Horror. We'd love to hear from you and what you thought of The Frighteners and The Conjuring. Which did you think was the best movie?
SPEAKER_05Are there any other horror movies that you'd like to recommend for our guest, Neil?
SPEAKER_01You can let us know what you thought over on Instagram at Curators of Horror, or you can email us at curatorsofhorror at gmail.com.
SPEAKER_05Head on over to our Instagram to vote for your favourite movie and to tell us which one scared you the most.
SPEAKER_01We'll be back next week, fingers crossed if we don't get sick and the you know internet doesn't break or some other crazy eventuality doesn't happen to reveal our next curations. And in two weeks, fingers crossed, as as I said above, with the next main episode.
SPEAKER_05We really hope you enjoyed the podcast. If you did, rate, review us, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_06And if you didn't, just go and sit in a dark hole somewhere. Maybe maybe someone with the music box might come behind you and clap.
SPEAKER_01Fair enough. I mean, that just sounds like clap on clap off lights. Doesn't sound scary at all.
SPEAKER_06Well, as the price.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_05Thank you, Neil.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Neil.
SPEAKER_05Thank you. Thank you, Katie.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Emris.
SPEAKER_05Thanks for listening. We hope you have a horrifying week.